From icblood@yahoo.com Sat Aug 04 12:44:42 2001 To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com Subject: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Windmills in sub-zero temperatures From: "Jerome M." Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:44:42 -0000 -------- Bax, here's an early report from Steve Spence, someone who is very active in alternative energy. This is encouraging. Dragonfly Steve Spence says: Our air 303 spun like crazy with good output on those windy -40 nights in upstate NY. When we had the big ice storm in 98, I had to give the blades a knock or two with a broom handle, as we went over a week with no wind. in operation, the unit stays warm enough to keep ice from forming. -- Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 sspence@webconx.com (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@y..., "Jerome M." wrote: > I don't know any online references, but I'll ask around. I should be > able to turn up some information. I don't know much about geothermal, > but it shouldn't be too difficult to run a hot line underground...it > would have to be dug pretty deep though, for those types of > temperatures. > > > Dragonfly > > > > > --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@y..., "Bax" wrote: > > Now there's something I hadn't thought of. Windmills in extreme > temps. > > Do you know of any online references? > > > > Now that you've mentioned that, I'm wondering about geo-thermal. > > > > > > --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@y..., "Jerome M." > > wrote: > > > Bax, > > > > > > I'm fairly sure that in the antarctic some of those outposts have > > > windmills...I think I read about one at an outpost in a paragraph > > in > > > National Geographic. > > > > > > Dragonfly > > > > > > > > > --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@y..., "Bax" > wrote: > > > > In 90 to 100 degrees below zero, artificial light probably won't > > be > > > > possible. I doubt the grid would still be intact and unless > > you've > > > > stockpiled several tons of fuel it won't be happening. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@y..., "Tessa" > > > wrote: > > > > > I didn't see the original post, sounds definitely interesting, > > not > > > > to many > > > > > roving bands of anything at those temps, take a look at life > in > > > the > > > > > Antarctic and the lack of life there too, at 90 or 100 degrees > > > > below people > > > > > would freeze to death in no time, never mind trying to start > > some > > > > form of > > > > > transport. Build your greenhouse under the snow with artifical > > > > light and the > > > > > snow for insulation. Everything would have to move > underground, > > or > > > > undersnow > > > > > I'd be thinking. > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Jeff Schwartz" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 8:34 AM > > > > > Subject: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Birds and tempature? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quick Question: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Temperatures may > > > > > >drop as low as 90-100 degrees below zero! > > > > > > > > > > And > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >6. Guns and ammunition. .22 rifles for small game. Shotguns > > for > > > > ducks > > > > > >and game birds. Also hand guns for self defense. There may be > > > > > >marauding bands of criminals who will seek to rob you or kill > > you > > > > and > > > > > >your family for what you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, real quick here - If the temp is 90-100 below zero, I > > don't > > > > think > > > > > "ducks and game birds" are gonna be much of an issue, eh? > > > > > > > > > > (Image of a Daffy-Duck style bird trying to swim in a pond at > - > > > > 95f...) > > > > > > > > > > So, let's presume the original poster's idea of a massive > > climate > > > > change > > > > > happens, and we get a sudden drop of, oh, about 150f in > average > > > > temps. > > > > > > > > > > Water purification becomes easier, I'd think, in that as it > > > > freezes, the > > > > > impurities should go toward one end of the ice. > > > > > > > > > > Hunting - most animals will freeze to death, then not rot, so > > > > getting meat > > > > > will be kinda like gathering berries.... for a while, anyway. > > What > > > > animals > > > > > are going to be able to quickly adapt to these temps? > > > > > > > > > > Shelter and heat - just like the animals are going to have it > > > > really rough, > > > > > how do we get along? The orignal post mentioned "lined > gloves", > > > but > > > > I'm > > > > > thinking "greenhouse" to grow food... and at -90f we're > looking > > at > > > > quite a > > > > > bit of moisture in the air freezing out, so how do you keep > the > > > > snow off > > > > > the greenhouse? > > > > > > > > > > Heck, how do you build a greenhouse when the temps are that > low? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group webpage: > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/DROolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com Group webpage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From icblood@yahoo.com Wed Aug 08 16:58:22 2001 To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com Subject: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Re: Windmills in sub-zero temperatures From: "Jerome M." Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:58:22 -0000 -------- Bax and all, Here's some more information on running a windmill in sub-zero temperatures. One post I didn't copy confirmed a windmill on an island near McMurdo Sound (Antarctica), so it's definitely doable. The more I think about it, the better windmills seem like an alternative (assuming you have enough wind at your site) Dragonfly From:"Nicolas Muszynski" To:"Dragonfly" Subject:Re: Windmills at extremely low temperatures? Date:Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:12:56 -0400 If you can take care of the icing problem and other difficulties of cold weather, you will actually produce more energy in the cold wind for the same speed in warm winds. The colder the air is the denser it is, meaning it will have a greater power. The power in the wind is P=0.5*p*A*V^3 where p is the density A the area and V the speed, the speed is the most important but the density can be important also. On a hot sunny day (95F) at around 5000ft you can have 80% the air density a sea level wind at slightly lower tempratures (still comfortable). This means you would be producing 80% of the power... this is not negligible... > > Steve Spence says: > > Our air 303 spun like crazy with good output on those windy -40 nights > in upstate NY. > > When we had the big ice storm in 98, I had to give the blades a knock > or two with a broom handle, as we went over a week with no wind. in > operation, the unit stays warm enough to keep ice from forming. > > -- > Steve Spence > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm > > Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com > Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm > X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 > sspence@w... > (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax > We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, > we borrow it from our children. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/DROolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com Group webpage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From cayoung01@earthlink.net Wed Aug 08 18:05:57 2001 To: Subject: Re: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Re: Windmills in sub-zero temperatures From: "Chris Young" Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:05:57 -0400 -------- I assure you, you have enough wind at your site. Christopher A. Young P.O. Box 442 Macedon, NY 14502 Improve your spirituality at www.lds.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerome M. To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 6:58 PM Subject: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Re: Windmills in sub-zero temperatures Bax and all, Here's some more information on running a windmill in sub-zero temperatures. One post I didn't copy confirmed a windmill on an island near McMurdo Sound (Antarctica), so it's definitely doable. The more I think about it, the better windmills seem like an alternative (assuming you have enough wind at your site) Dragonfly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/DROolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com Group webpage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/