From DodgeNeon1@earthlink.net Fri Aug 03 19:38:23 2001 To: Subject: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Shelter, power and water via a cave From: "Bill" Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:38:23 -0500 -------- Don't know if I caught all the postings below. So, I may be late on mentioning something. The below scenario is why I have made a threat assessment on various scenarios. While I have not thought about extremely cold weather. I have thought about a large meteoroid strike though. Cloudy days for at least several years.Colder temps and maybe a return to the ice ice. Caves can provide a lot of shelter. Right now, a majority of caves in the USA are at a fairly standard temp of around 55°F all year around. Some are hotter and some are colder though. Closing off the cave from the outside can help. However, I would rather just build a shelter in the cave. Don't forget the airlock too! Airlock, you say? Yes, you need to confine the cold and any possible wind to a small room, before you enter the main abode. You will need electricity. So, you have to provide for it. Plant grow lites do take some energy. Maybe a treadmill or bike on a stand can provide the energy via a battery bank and inverter for the lights. You might need some heat for the plants as well or maybe you could relocate to one of those warmer caves. I believe they are in Virginia or West Virginia. BTW, if you wonder why I said "wind" above. Most caves "breathe", with some of them seeming like there is a gale wind. I haven't mentioned water any. For any cave I would settle in would have a stream. Course, you could always go outside the cave and gather water ice. Just hope it is not some of the other gases that may have solidified. You could also have a complete closed environment in there. With solar cells above the cave or a water wheel providing all your energy needs. Course, all of this could be done in another environment altogether. Caves though, provide one or two very good things just because they are a cave. Shelter and privacy are the two I would want and value more than anything else. In case you are wondering. There is property available that have caves on it or rather, under it! Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Schwartz To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 07:34 Subject: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Birds and tempature? Quick Question: > > Temperatures may >drop as low as 90-100 degrees below zero! And > >6. Guns and ammunition. .22 rifles for small game. Shotguns for ducks >and game birds. Also hand guns for self defense. There may be >marauding bands of criminals who will seek to rob you or kill you and >your family for what you have. Okay, real quick here - If the temp is 90-100 below zero, I don't think "ducks and game birds" are gonna be much of an issue, eh? (Image of a Daffy-Duck style bird trying to swim in a pond at -95f...) So, let's presume the original poster's idea of a massive climate change happens, and we get a sudden drop of, oh, about 150f in average temps. Water purification becomes easier, I'd think, in that as it freezes, the impurities should go toward one end of the ice. Hunting - most animals will freeze to death, then not rot, so getting meat will be kinda like gathering berries.... for a while, anyway. What animals are going to be able to quickly adapt to these temps? Shelter and heat - just like the animals are going to have it really rough, how do we get along? The orignal post mentioned "lined gloves", but I'm thinking "greenhouse" to grow food... and at -90f we're looking at quite a bit of moisture in the air freezing out, so how do you keep the snow off the greenhouse? Heck, how do you build a greenhouse when the temps are that low? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/DROolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com Group webpage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From dustyut@lasal.net Sat Aug 04 00:46:55 2001 To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Shelter, power and water via a cave From: Dusty Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 00:46:55 -0600 -------- Bill, do not leave out abandoned mines. Yes there's a lot that are dangerous, but there's alos a lot that can still be used. Carl Bill wrote: > > Don't know if I caught all the postings below. So, I may be late on > mentioning something. > > The below scenario is why I have made a threat assessment on various > scenarios. While I have not thought about extremely cold weather. I > have thought about a large meteoroid strike though. Cloudy days for at > least several years.Colder temps and maybe a return to the ice ice. > > Caves can provide a lot of shelter. Right now, a majority of caves in > the USA are at a fairly standard temp of around 55°F all year around. > Some are hotter and some are colder though. Closing off the cave from > the outside can help. However, I would rather just build a shelter in > the cave. Don't forget the airlock too! > > Airlock, you say? Yes, you need to confine the cold and any possible > wind to a small room, before you enter the main abode. You will need > electricity. So, you have to provide for it. Plant grow lites do take > some energy. Maybe a treadmill or bike on a stand can provide the > energy via a battery bank and inverter for the lights. You might need > some heat for the plants as well or maybe you could relocate to one of > those warmer caves. I believe they are in Virginia or West Virginia. > > BTW, if you wonder why I said "wind" above. Most caves "breathe", with > some of them seeming like there is a gale wind. I haven't mentioned > water any. For any cave I would settle in would have a stream. Course, > you could always go outside the cave and gather water ice. Just hope > it is not some of the other gases that may have solidified. > > You could also have a complete closed environment in there. With solar > cells above the cave or a water wheel providing all your energy needs. > Course, all of this could be done in another environment altogether. > Caves though, provide one or two very good things just because they > are a cave. Shelter and privacy are the two I would want and value > more than anything else. > > In case you are wondering. There is property available that have caves > on it or rather, under it! > > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Schwartz > To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 07:34 > Subject: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Birds and tempature? > > Quick Question: > > > > > Temperatures may > >drop as low as 90-100 degrees below zero! > > And > > > > >6. Guns and ammunition. .22 rifles for small game. Shotguns for > ducks > >and game birds. Also hand guns for self defense. There may be > >marauding bands of criminals who will seek to rob you or kill you > and > >your family for what you have. > > Okay, real quick here - If the temp is 90-100 below zero, I don't > think > "ducks and game birds" are gonna be much of an issue, eh? > > (Image of a Daffy-Duck style bird trying to swim in a pond at > -95f...) > > So, let's presume the original poster's idea of a massive climate > change > happens, and we get a sudden drop of, oh, about 150f in average > temps. > > Water purification becomes easier, I'd think, in that as it freezes, > the > impurities should go toward one end of the ice. > > Hunting - most animals will freeze to death, then not rot, so > getting meat > will be kinda like gathering berries.... for a while, anyway. What > animals > are going to be able to quickly adapt to these temps? > > Shelter and heat - just like the animals are going to have it really > rough, > how do we get along? The orignal post mentioned "lined gloves", but > I'm > thinking "greenhouse" to grow food... and at -90f we're looking at > quite a > bit of moisture in the air freezing out, so how do you keep the snow > off > the greenhouse? > > Heck, how do you build a greenhouse when the temps are that low? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > Group webpage: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- "Single men live to eat and mate, and get exceedingly cranky when interrupted in either endeavor...." Annonymous female poster in e-mail list ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/DROolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com Group webpage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From DodgeNeon1@earthlink.net Sat Aug 04 18:38:06 2001 To: Subject: Re: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Shelter, power and water via a cave From: "Bill" Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:38:06 -0500 -------- True, including salt, coal and maybe some other mines as well. Warning!!! Check for Radon and Methane Gases in the mines. Then, you should also not be in a played out Uranium mine. I would also be kinda leery about any running water in the mine. Most mines do not have any exchange of air in there. Hence the Radon Gas buildup. However, that same lack of air exchange can guarantee survival in case of an NBC War. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 01:46 Subject: Re: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Shelter, power and water via a cave Bill, do not leave out abandoned mines. Yes there's a lot that are dangerous, but there's alos a lot that can still be used. Carl Bill wrote: > > Don't know if I caught all the postings below. So, I may be late on > mentioning something. > > The below scenario is why I have made a threat assessment on various > scenarios. While I have not thought about extremely cold weather. I > have thought about a large meteoroid strike though. Cloudy days for at > least several years.Colder temps and maybe a return to the ice ice. > > Caves can provide a lot of shelter. Right now, a majority of caves in > the USA are at a fairly standard temp of around 55°F all year around. > Some are hotter and some are colder though. Closing off the cave from > the outside can help. However, I would rather just build a shelter in > the cave. Don't forget the airlock too! > > Airlock, you say? Yes, you need to confine the cold and any possible > wind to a small room, before you enter the main abode. You will need > electricity. So, you have to provide for it. Plant grow lites do take > some energy. Maybe a treadmill or bike on a stand can provide the > energy via a battery bank and inverter for the lights. You might need > some heat for the plants as well or maybe you could relocate to one of > those warmer caves. I believe they are in Virginia or West Virginia. > > BTW, if you wonder why I said "wind" above. Most caves "breathe", with > some of them seeming like there is a gale wind. I haven't mentioned > water any. For any cave I would settle in would have a stream. Course, > you could always go outside the cave and gather water ice. Just hope > it is not some of the other gases that may have solidified. > > You could also have a complete closed environment in there. With solar > cells above the cave or a water wheel providing all your energy needs. > Course, all of this could be done in another environment altogether. > Caves though, provide one or two very good things just because they > are a cave. Shelter and privacy are the two I would want and value > more than anything else. > > In case you are wondering. There is property available that have caves > on it or rather, under it! > > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Schwartz > To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 07:34 > Subject: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Birds and tempature? > > Quick Question: > > > > > Temperatures may > >drop as low as 90-100 degrees below zero! > > And > > > > >6. Guns and ammunition. .22 rifles for small game. Shotguns for > ducks > >and game birds. Also hand guns for self defense. There may be > >marauding bands of criminals who will seek to rob you or kill you > and > >your family for what you have. > > Okay, real quick here - If the temp is 90-100 below zero, I don't > think > "ducks and game birds" are gonna be much of an issue, eh? > > (Image of a Daffy-Duck style bird trying to swim in a pond at > -95f...) > > So, let's presume the original poster's idea of a massive climate > change > happens, and we get a sudden drop of, oh, about 150f in average > temps. > > Water purification becomes easier, I'd think, in that as it freezes, > the > impurities should go toward one end of the ice. > > Hunting - most animals will freeze to death, then not rot, so > getting meat > will be kinda like gathering berries.... for a while, anyway. What > animals > are going to be able to quickly adapt to these temps? > > Shelter and heat - just like the animals are going to have it really > rough, > how do we get along? The orignal post mentioned "lined gloves", but > I'm > thinking "greenhouse" to grow food... and at -90f we're looking at > quite a > bit of moisture in the air freezing out, so how do you keep the snow > off > the greenhouse? > > Heck, how do you build a greenhouse when the temps are that low? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > Group webpage: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- "Single men live to eat and mate, and get exceedingly cranky when interrupted in either endeavor...." Annonymous female poster in e-mail list To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com Group webpage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/DROolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com Group webpage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From dustyut@lasal.net Sat Aug 04 21:26:39 2001 To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Shelter, power and water via a cave From: Dusty Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:26:39 -0600 -------- The radon issue isn't as much of a problem as some may think. When it comes to coal, I would say that only 1-2 out of 1000 would be safe enough to use. H2S, Methane, Hydrogen, Carbon Dioxide, Carbon Monoxide, Nitrogen and a few other gases are predominant in coal mines. While they can and will occur in other mines, the percentage is far less. Within a 5 mile drive up canyone or down, I have found 6 mines/prospects. Originally for uranium. And everone of them is habitable. OTOH, there are 15+ abandoned coal mines in this county, and not one of them are habitable. As for running water, if water is present, preferably before TSHTF, get the water tested so you'll know what's there. In many cases all that is needed is a pH change. That can help "drop" the dissolved solids out of the water, if they are present. My preference for mines is uranium and copper. Vanadium is ok. Carl Bill wrote: > > True, including salt, coal and maybe some other mines as well. > Warning!!! Check for Radon and Methane Gases in the mines. Then, you > should also not be in a played out Uranium mine. I would also be kinda > leery about any running water in the mine. Most mines do not have any > exchange of air in there. Hence the Radon Gas buildup. However, that > same lack of air exchange can guarantee survival in case of an NBC > War. > > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dusty > To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 01:46 > Subject: Re: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Shelter, power and water > via a cave > > Bill, do not leave out abandoned mines. Yes there's a lot that are > dangerous, but there's alos a lot that can still be used. > Carl > > Bill wrote: > > > > Don't know if I caught all the postings below. So, I may be late > on > > mentioning something. > > > > The below scenario is why I have made a threat assessment on > various > > scenarios. While I have not thought about extremely cold weather. > I > > have thought about a large meteoroid strike though. Cloudy days > for at > > least several years.Colder temps and maybe a return to the ice > ice. > > > > Caves can provide a lot of shelter. Right now, a majority of caves > in > > the USA are at a fairly standard temp of around 55°F all year > around. > > Some are hotter and some are colder though. Closing off the cave > from > > the outside can help. However, I would rather just build a shelter > in > > the cave. Don't forget the airlock too! > > > > Airlock, you say? Yes, you need to confine the cold and any > possible > > wind to a small room, before you enter the main abode. You will > need > > electricity. So, you have to provide for it. Plant grow lites do > take > > some energy. Maybe a treadmill or bike on a stand can provide the > > energy via a battery bank and inverter for the lights. You might > need > > some heat for the plants as well or maybe you could relocate to > one of > > those warmer caves. I believe they are in Virginia or West > Virginia. > > > > BTW, if you wonder why I said "wind" above. Most caves "breathe", > with > > some of them seeming like there is a gale wind. I haven't > mentioned > > water any. For any cave I would settle in would have a stream. > Course, > > you could always go outside the cave and gather water ice. Just > hope > > it is not some of the other gases that may have solidified. > > > > You could also have a complete closed environment in there. With > solar > > cells above the cave or a water wheel providing all your energy > needs. > > Course, all of this could be done in another environment > altogether. > > Caves though, provide one or two very good things just because > they > > are a cave. Shelter and privacy are the two I would want and value > > more than anything else. > > > > In case you are wondering. There is property available that have > caves > > on it or rather, under it! > > > > Bill > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jeff Schwartz > > To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 07:34 > > Subject: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Birds and tempature? > > > > Quick Question: > > > > > > > > Temperatures may > > >drop as low as 90-100 degrees below zero! > > > > And > > > > > > > >6. Guns and ammunition. .22 rifles for small game. Shotguns for > > ducks > > >and game birds. Also hand guns for self defense. There may be > > >marauding bands of criminals who will seek to rob you or kill > you > > and > > >your family for what you have. > > > > Okay, real quick here - If the temp is 90-100 below zero, I > don't > > think > > "ducks and game birds" are gonna be much of an issue, eh? > > > > (Image of a Daffy-Duck style bird trying to swim in a pond at > > -95f...) > > > > So, let's presume the original poster's idea of a massive > climate > > change > > happens, and we get a sudden drop of, oh, about 150f in average > > temps. > > > > Water purification becomes easier, I'd think, in that as it > freezes, > > the > > impurities should go toward one end of the ice. > > > > Hunting - most animals will freeze to death, then not rot, so > > getting meat > > will be kinda like gathering berries.... for a while, anyway. > What > > animals > > are going to be able to quickly adapt to these temps? > > > > Shelter and heat - just like the animals are going to have it > really > > rough, > > how do we get along? The orignal post mentioned "lined gloves", > but > > I'm > > thinking "greenhouse" to grow food... and at -90f we're looking > at > > quite a > > bit of moisture in the air freezing out, so how do you keep the > snow > > off > > the greenhouse? > > > > Heck, how do you build a greenhouse when the temps are that low? > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Group webpage: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > -- > "Single men live to eat and mate, and get exceedingly cranky when > interrupted in > either endeavor...." Annonymous female poster in e-mail list > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > Group webpage: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > Group webpage: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- "Single men live to eat and mate, and get exceedingly cranky when interrupted in either endeavor...." Annonymous female poster in e-mail list ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/DROolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com Group webpage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From msrudolf@msn.com Sat Aug 04 22:02:34 2001 To: Subject: Re: [misc_survivalism_moderated] Shelter, power and water via a cave From: "msrudolf" Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 23:02:34 -0500 -------- You sound like a man after my own heart. I would run off and live in a cave right now if I didn't have family. I am quite a bit a hermit. I actually had a distant relative about 125 years ago who was spurned by a girl in college and dropped out and ran off and lived in a cave. I understand he lived to about 60 but some gang of young men killed him thinking he had a stash of money. Just one of those old family stories. Cynthia Caves though, provide one or two very good things just because they are a cave. Shelter and privacy are the two I would want and value more than anything else. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/DROolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: misc_survivalism_moderated-unsubscribe@egroups.com Group webpage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/misc_survivalism_moderated Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/